Tell us more about yourself!
Hi everyone! I’m Shrey, I have been acting since I was young. I’ve recently come back from the States after completing my college of four years.
For people who aren’t familiar with you and the incident that we’re about to talk about, can you share more about it?
Back in 2017, there was an open call for “Ah Boys To Men 4”. I was back for the summer holidays at that time and I went for the open call. I had a couple of friends who were already involved with the franchise so they had put in a good word for me and I auditioned. The audition was for the role of an Indian or Malay soldier, and it was scripted in Singlish. So during my audition, I did it one time through, the way I had prepped it.
After that, the first adjustment I was given by the casting director was, “Can you be more Indian?” and I was a little taken aback, I didn’t know what that meant. So I tried to clarify, I said, “Do you mean like.. A thicker accent... or more exaggerated mannerisms, hand movements, or something like that?” And the casting director said, “Yeah, just try to be a full-blown Indian man.”
Because the script was in Singlish, so it was a bit strange to do that… unless the character wasn’t written to be local; I guess a Permanent Resident (PR) or something, my conclusion was that he wouldn’t speak colloquial Singlish? So if he was to speak Singlish, then he was probably Singaporean, so he probably doesn’t talk or behave like that (“a full-blown Indian man). Then the casting director just said, “No, but that’s what we want, so make it funny.”
It was kind of weird but I did it and I didn’t feel good about myself doing it, but at that moment I just had to complete the audition.
And then after that… Well, when I look back at it now, I guess I was a bit naive, rushing to post about it on Facebook. I think I could have dealt with it better. Especially when it came to my friends that I could have spoken to, and told them about my experience. I’m sure they would have guided me through it and reassured me, but I think at that point I was so overwhelmed with what was going on… I didn’t expect it, especially after having come back from the States. I was in California where everything was a bit more liberal, people were more accepting of racial differences. They were a little more... mindful of these things? So I was a little taken aback and I made that post.
The post was shared amongst my own circle of friends. Initially responses were positive, so I made it public. I thought, “Oh, okay... I guess this is good,” but I honestly didn’t do it to go viral or anything. People were asking me if they could share the post so I was like, “Okay…”
I didn’t expect it to go viral the way it did! And then from that point the rest is history, I guess! A lot of people weighed in and gave their opinions… Both positive and negative. There were two polarised camps that came out of it and then Xiaxue also got involved and that’s when things kind of turned a bit ugly.
Do you want to share a bit about how that audition experience felt like for you?
Well, first of all, it was an open call so we were waiting for a long time. It was a good few hours of just waiting in line and then the heat.. I mean I was still a student, had just come back for the summer, and I was dressed in my army Number 4 and everything… It’s like, you have to understand the context. There was so much going on - you wait for a long time for like, 2 minutes in the (audition) room and you have one chance for the only adjustment to be, “Can you be more Indian?”
It just felt like I could do so much more in terms of acting, and I was just confused… How could the identity of being Indian be characterised and how was that an actionable note? How do you, “Be more Indian”? Plus, it was coming from a Chinese casting director and the optics of it just looked bad.
It felt like… I am Indian, right? Am I not Indian enough? What does that mean? I was expecting to have other notes or to have the chance to try different variations (of reading the lines). That didn’t happen, so I was left feeling... I had no idea what to make of it. I mean my friends put in a good word for me, so I thought they would have known that I was coming in, at least I would have been addressed in a respectable way.
It wasn’t the casting director’s fault, it’s not like she was intending to be racist. I’m pretty sure there were ways she could have said what she said differently. Maybe, “Can you be a bit more exaggerated? We just need the moments to be a bit more punchier.” or, “The lines need to be delivered in a more exaggerated way”. That would have been completely fine, but I think maybe in translating the note, the casting director thought that the easiest way to put it across was, “Can you be more Indian?”
I guess that statement itself just had a lot of connotation. That opens up Pandora’s Box, you know?
“It just felt frustrating as a young actor because you only have so few roles being an Indian actor and then after trying out for the Indian role in this big movie… it was as if minorities are interchangeable… you know?.”
Like you mentioned it was about addressing the comment in a respectable way. But it’s not only that phrase “be more Indian” implies so many things. Do you want to talk a bit about that, and what that kind of implies?
When a Chinese person says, “Be more Indian”, it already means that the “Indian-ness” or whatever the concept of being Indian as a race or ethnicity is being seen through the lens of the Chinese experience.
As a young actor trying to break into the industry, this problem becomes twofold. One is that I’m already being type-casted into a certain minority role. But on top of that, I have to play into a certain expectation of my ethnicity. And that is problematic, you know?
We see a lot of this in mainstream media, sometimes this portrayal just means speaking with a thicker accent. And the thing is, I am hesitant to talk about accents because this whole debate was never supposed to be about the accent. I was never against doing that. In fact, in my repertoire of work, I’ve done many accents and I have a skill in doing accents. I think it’s fine as long as it’s authentic to the character.
It’s just that once Xiaxue weighed in and pulled out clips of mine, the debate became about me not wanting to do an accent. But it’s not about doing accents, it’s when an accent is not used to make things authentic, but rather to poke fun at something just because it’s funny. Or when certain mannerisms are labelled as “Indian” because that's what we see but don’t understand. For example, the “head bobble” is a language of its own. There are videos out there, explaining how Indians communicate and how the head gestures add tonality to our words. There’s a rich vocabulary to it but it gets reduced to like, “Oh it’s funny because it's so absurd,” or, “ It’s so strange!” because we don’t understand it.
The caricature of being a bit over the top, of shaking your head, of speaking with an exaggerated accent becomes jarring, it becomes defined as “Indian-ness.” And I think for me… it was that, coupled with the fact that, why do you have to say, “Be more Indian” so casually? That itself was a bit insensitive. So, that’s what I really had against the phrase.
This alludes to the importance of representation in media, do you want to share your thoughts on that? On how things are being represented?
Since then, a lot of things are becoming better. I have not encountered another audition like that at all and there have been great stories with minority characters written in a nuanced way. And of course with NSFTV, I’m so grateful for that.
The thing about representation that we must keep in mind is perspective representation. It’s not just having a brown body on screen. That’s the first step. It’s great that we have characters or stories about the minority in our media. But what perspective are we telling the story from? Is it still from a Chinese person’s perspective? That's not to say we have to have writers that are all Indian, or directors that are all Indian, or that only Indians can tell stories about Indians. I don't think that anyone has a monopoly over stories.
But we need to be mindful when we tell these stories that we are representing different perspectives appropriately and authentically. Those who are in positions of power who are in charge of these films, web series, or tv shows, need to empathise with and understand these stories and perspectives. Also, collaborating with other people to tell the stories in an authentic way. All of this takes time, but I think we’re heading there, slowly.
One of the things you mentioned was how it was a very innocent decision, to share your experience on Facebook, to your community of friends. Do you feel like you bringing it up played a role in helping to shape this narrative in moving forward?
I genuinely believe that what's meant to happen, will happen. This is a very spiritual thing but sometimes some things that you enrol in have a ripple effect in someone else’s life, and it’s meant to happen that way. Not saying that it’s predetermined or anything, but we’re all energies so we influence one another and we’re part of a bigger puzzle.
I definitely believe what happened was meant to happen, that change would show over time. There were a lot of articles written about the saga from both sides. So when you google my name, you see all of them come up. As an actor, while that’s good, I don't want to be known just for that.
I'm so much more than someone who’s just fighting for representation. Activism is not entirely all that I’m about. I want my art to speak for itself and for activism to be influenced by my art rather than me having to fight for it on the front lines. I respect those who do, it’s just not my life. I don't want that to be my life. I need my Google searches to change!
On that note, let’s talk about your career! Since then, tell me about your career, tell me about L.A, how has that been like for you?
When the incident happened, I was going to be part of Singapore’s International Festival of Arts (SIFA) 2017- which was already in place before the saga. I was going to be on K. Rajagopal’s ‘Lizard on the Wall’, which was a film about a Punjabi family, along with some taboo themes. At the same time, I was also going to be in a play with Pangdemonium for SIFA.
So when all of this happened, it was scary because I didn’t know if I was still going to be involved in these projects. Thankfully Rajagopal, Adrian (Pang), and Tracy (Pang), all of them were very generous.
Especially in the Pangdemonium play where I had to speak with a Bengali accent because I was playing a Bangladeshi construction worker, Adrian and Tracy spoke to me after one of the shows, and said, “We know what happened, but don’t worry we’ll make sure the accent is authentic, we will do the research and get someone to train you with the accent. Are you still okay with doing the play?” I was like, “Yeah, I’m okay with doing the play! I thought you guys were going to drop me!”
There are people in the industry who are generous and understand where I came from who still want to work with me and are supportive of what I said and what I did. Although, they also gave me advice on how I could have been more tactful. They are mentors, right? I think it’s good to have people like them in your life. At the same time, I think you know, no publicity is bad publicity- that’s what people say, right? At the very least, people know my name. There were times when I go for an audition, or have a project, and people say, “Oh you’re that guy ah! Who posted that thing in 2017…” It’s a conversation starter. I’m always on sets and on projects where people tend to see eye-to-eye on the issue. So career wise, it's not been a case where the incident has had any negative outcome? If anything, it’s connected me with more people.
Right now in Singapore, I’m mostly known for my Facebook post and the whole saga in 2017. My goal is to change that, hopefully I’m known more for my work than I am for this. One day we won’t have to talk about these things. Maybe it will recede into our collective memories and hopefully Singapore will be a more harmonious place to live in so we don’t have to talk about it in that way, and then my work will speak for itself. So I’m slowly working towards that, we’ll see!
What does it mean for your work to speak for itself?
Well, whether it’s stuff that I've done with NSFTV or any project that I do, people discover ‘Shrey the Person’ through ‘Shrey the Artist’.
Of course I do my best to take projects that are impactful, to tell stories that need to be told, to play characters that have something deeper, beyond the slapstick, something more meaningful. When the work speaks for itself, I don’t have to defend it and I don’t have to talk about it. The work itself makes the statement to move this conversation forward rather than me having to do the talking by writing essays on Facebook … you know?
Long Story Short was fun because you have this interracial couple and even though that video of the lecturer being disrespectful to an interracial couple only surfaced recently, I think you guys have constantly been telling and showing stories about interracial couples. Being in an interracial relationship myself, I feel there’s so much more there to explore and I think for Long Story Short, it was nice to see a script that showed that complexity.
As video creators, we are also trying to figure out. Sometimes, it’s not just about talking about something but just having it be there... For example, even in “Monday Nights”, Devan and Sabrina, we never talked about them being an interracial couple, but just showed their relationship onscreen.
In great films, commentaries on society are never done within the story, the stories exist within the commentary. As you watch the story, the commentary unfolds in the background… For example in ‘Y tu mamá también’, it's just these two boys and they want to have a threesome with this older woman, and it's so naive and childish, and youthful. It’s that energy but it's set in the Mexican countryside, and as you watch the film, you see all the crap that's going on in the country in the background. And how the character’s privileged status makes them oblivious to all the poverty and the class issues that are happening.
For me you can read into a film and be like, “Oh my God, it’s saying so much about the privilege of people.” It’s amazing to tell a story on that level, so I would love to be part of projects where I can do justice to a character, and in doing so honour the larger story, its the themes and the social commentary. I don't have to play a character that’s finding fault... or is always super oppressed.
There are shades of nuances... Even myself, as a North Indian Singaporean man, I have privileges too. It's not that I’m Indian so I’m oppressed. There are so many nuances.
So what's next for you?
Well, I’m in a TV show called “This Land is Mine” that is coming out in August, I'm excited for that! I’m also in a short film that’s shooting this week called “It Never Rains On National Day” It will be released closer to National Day, and basically it's paying homage to the life that men in the military have lived in trying to make National Day happen and how difficult it is. It's a comedy so it's fun, and I play this young Indian captain under this older Chinese encik. I have to fight against the old ways to try to get National Day to happen without rain... It’s funny.
Can’t talk too much else about it, but it's funny... it's also touching.
Do you have any advice for younger actors who are also navigating this industry, and who might be struggling the same way that you did back then?
Don't get too caught up in the racial politics of it because first of all, as a young actor, you're going to have to do a lot of small roles. You're going to have to do roles that you may not agree with. At every stage of your career, but particularly when you're young, you may not have the choice in picking projects, you just have to do whatever comes your way and build your portfolio.
When you're on set and you think something can be represented better or some things can be changed, find diplomatic ways to bring the conversation up. Find creative, collaborative ways to make it better, rather be confrontational about it. I think it's very easy (to be confrontational) especially now as a minority and in this day and age where everything is so charged with anger or fear, you start to see everything in that through those lens.
For me personally, after that happened, I was blessed enough to have mentors and people who came to speak to me with their points of view about how I could have handled that situation better. Industry veterans came to speak to me, reached out to me. They said, “You can see things from both points of view. It doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist, but if you only choose to see it from one point of view, put on those glasses… then you will get consumed by it.”
As an artist, as a creator, you don't want to do that. You need to always keep a point of view that's critical of both sides. Otherwise you'll be in the story, and not be the storyteller.
Do you have anything you want to say to 2017 you?
It's hard to say I mean, I can say a bunch of things.
I might say, “Let your work speak for itself! You don't have to fight this fight.” But that would mean I would never have made that post and the post has impacted many things outside of myself. Would that then be a disservice to the conversation?
I could tell past me to be more mindful of my friendships and my relationships in the industry and think a bit more before making that post. Things might have been a lot different from what it is now, but then again, would that be a disservice to everything that's happened?
I feel like we can never really tell our old selves anything without having our old selves go through everything that they have. We have to let things be, watch them from a distance and be like, “I still love you, bro”.
This interview was edited for brevity and clarity.